Money, Messaging & Misinformation: Stephanie Ruhle on Wall Street, Trump, and the Democratic Response

Stephanie Ruhle: We are in this time of misinformation where they want people to be exhausted and uninformed. And I just think we cannot let that be the case. And it’s incumbent upon us when we think about kids' primary and secondary education in the United States of America, that our kids should graduate high school financially literate. The thing that’s the biggest threat to capitalism right now is not Zorah Mamdani. It’s crony capitalism. And now you have Donald Trump, who’s not even, like, creeping on self-dealing and doing things that lack ethics. He’s blowing right through the door and he’s smiling while he’s doing it. President Trump has a PhD in fake it till you make it. If Democrats are unwilling, it’s like they’re unwilling to sing Happy Birthday unless every kid in America has a cupcake. And that is just not a practical way to win. What Republicans are good at is selling the economy. And I think that’s where sometimes Democrats make a mistake. They’re so careful in wanting to be inclusive. They don’t take the victory laps when they can.

Dan Koh: Stephanie Ruhle. Welcome to the People’s Cabinet.

Stephanie Ruhle: Thanks for having me.

Dan Koh: You know, we talk at a very unique time in our society as well as in media. It feels like there’s all kinds of information flying that, unlike in the past and unlike things that you take very seriously, are with outsourcing that people are getting all from their individual silos. So my first question to you, as someone who’s been doing this a long time, how do we break out of those silos and establish some kind of objectivity information again?

Stephanie Ruhle: I think the first answer is don’t give up, because right now, in this chaos-filled time, well, there’s a flood of misinformation. Well, there are bad actors that want to exhaust us. Um, we can’t let that happen. Right. And so when you think about people, talk about these dark times, these dark times. And I’m not saying they’re not, but, um, all it takes is one light to drown out the dark. It doesn’t matter how dark things are. It’s one candle changes the whole landscape. And so for those of us who are at it, it’s super tiring. It’s exhausting. I definitely have many days where I’m like, God, wouldn’t it be great to be covering movie premieres right now? And in some instances I feel that way. But at the end of the day, um, I think it’s a crucially important time. It’s more important than ever because we’ve got news deserts in this country, because we’ve got entire regions in this country where people have limited access to information and news. And so it’s crucially important to keep at it. And as much as I love anchoring my show at 11 p.m. eastern every night, and I have a team dedicated to doing it, I can’t believe or I can’t feel that you know what? People are just going to keep watching there. So you have to create the best content that you can. Knowing that what you do. The goal is to help people get better and smarter, and to not just do it on linear TV, to be doing it on social media platforms, to be doing podcasts, to be doing radio shows, to get to people where they are because people are receiving their information from more places than ever. You know, it was Mark Zuckerberg of all people who like, 5 or 6 years ago went on this walking tour of all 50 states. And his takeaway was people don’t trust information. They trust relationships so they can get information from anywhere at this point. But if you’ve worked hard and over time built trusted relationships, honor that and find people where they are. If they’re getting their information on social media, then I guess you’re going to take your show and you’re going to take the best content. You’re going to make it in digital format to get your most important takeaways to that audience, wherever they are. And I think it’s crucially important. And I don’t think that people, you know, people want to believe that we’re completely siloed, right? That we’ve created these divisions and we’re monetizing these divisions. I actually do not believe we’re as divided as one would. What one would lead you to believe? I think that for the most part, people are trying to take care of their families. They care about their neighbors, right? They want to be physically safe. They want to be socially free. They want to be financially secure. And it’s our job to not just assume that people are tied to ideologies. People are tied to the fact that they want to live their best lives. They want to take care of their families. And if what we can do is provide information to help people do just that. And at the end of the day, after you produce this podcast, after I make my show and I watch it back and I say, did we create content that hopefully made people better and smarter than I think that’s a win.

Dan Koh: And how do you, can you take us through a typical day in how you put together the show? Because first of all, I don’t know how all of you are able to stay up till 11:00 and stay lucid. I mean, it’s somehow you’re able to do it with an incredible amount of energy, and it’s a big responsibility, right? And for many people who are watching live, it’s the last information that they consume at the end of the day. I think a lot of people have seen your show, but I’m not sure many people know how you put it together. So maybe if you could take us behind the scenes a little bit.

Stephanie Ruhle: I consider it an awesome responsibility and an honor. But yes, it is tiring, but I think it’s important that it’s at the end of the day. Um, there was a survey years and years ago where, um, the person who was considered one of the most trusted men in America was Johnny Carson. And it’s not because, um, he was just this great, great guy. He was the last person people saw at night. And when people watched him, they weren’t in their office. They weren’t in the dentist. You know, they weren’t in a dentist office or an airport catching information as it went by. People were watching him at 11:00 at night when they were in their beds, when they were in their pajamas, when they were on their couches. And I tried to take the show as this is the last information people are going to hear, what is what are all the most important things that happened today? How do we share that information with our audience? How do we tell them what happened and why it matters to them? And that’s where the perspective part comes in that we break down. Here’s the news. And then we bring on experts and analysts to explain why it matters. And sometimes that can mean that we’re talking to lawmakers, or we’re doing an interview during the day and airing it at night, but oftentimes it’s not. When you’re on at 11:00 at night, you have the benefit of all the most important soundbites that happen during that day. And instead of having to have those lawmakers on who might filibuster the interview and blather on for 15 minutes, um, instead we can say, here’s the 40s and the most important thing they said, and here’s why it mattered matters. And, um, we basically spend the entire day. My team works, uh, in shifts. Um. Sort of. We have our first meeting of the day at 1030, and just throughout the day, figuring out what’s happening today. And for me. We obviously do things through a business lens. Um, you know, I do believe, um, that economics is at the heart of everything. Uh, it was Kellyanne Conway who once said people vote on what affects them, not offends them. And while we do get really worked up about things that are offensive or things that are abnormal or things that are unprecedented, at the end of the day, I do think people make some of their most important decisions based on their finances. And I think something that’s really important, especially I come from Wall Street and after I worked in finance, I worked in business television. I think something that’s really unfortunate about people who speak in financial talk or even business TV. We’re talking to ourselves. It’s masturbatory. It is. It is reporters speaking to an audience that already knows that language, and you have a huge portion of this country that doesn’t understand finance. And then they just assume, like, you know what? I’m not a money person. I don’t understand it. And I just don’t want to accept that outcome because I know all of us when we go to get a job, we want to get paid the most amount of money we can. We want to get the best rate on our mortgage. We want to make sure we’re managing our lives so we can manage ourselves the best we can. And and for me, if I can explain to people what’s happening in, in in what complicated economic, uh, the complicated economic times we’re living in, if I can break it down and explain it to people so they understand it and they can help make better decisions, to me, that is like the greatest win and an honor. You know, during Covid, we spent a huge amount of time doing digital videos and on TV and doing call-in programs to try to help people understand how their stimulus checks worked, how unemployment worked, how the loans worked, and sort of of all the things that I’ve gotten to work on, you know, in my in my tenure working as a journalist, I would say those were some of my greatest experiences. We did special programs, sort of helping small businesses and individuals deal with complicated economic times during Covid. And it’s amazing how many things, at the end of the day, go back to finance. And when you look at a lot of things with the current president, when you ask people, you know, why are you voting for this person or what? You know, you don’t feel good about X or Y. Oftentimes they say, well, it’s about economics. And it’s amazing because Republicans have done a brilliant job convincing the American people that they’re the ones who are fiscally responsible. They’re the ones who are pro-business. They’re the ones who are responsible for greater, more robust economic growth. And historically speaking, that’s not the case. What Republicans are doing are are good at is selling the economy. And I think that’s where sometimes Democrats make a mistake in that they’re so careful in wanting to be inclusive that they don’t take the victory laps when they can. Right. It’s sort of like I remember in the beginning of maybe a year into Joe Biden’s presidency, I remember talking to somebody in his administration and just saying, like, um, here’s five great economic points that you guys, you know, have and could be shouting from rooftops, why aren’t you? And one of them was the performance of the stock market. And the person said to me like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Like we definitely can’t say that because not everybody’s invested in the stock market. We don’t want to exclude people. And I remember being mystified like, yeah, I know not everybody’s invested in the stock market A but B it’s not just Wall Street and hedge fund managers. The majority of people that own stocks and bonds are pension funds. It’s firefighters, it’s nurses, it’s teachers. But but that’s neither here nor there. If Democrats are unwilling, it’s like they’re unwilling to sing Happy Birthday unless every kid in America has a cupcake. And that is just not a practical way to win. And if you’ve got a strong economic story to tell, and I get it, not everyone will be included in that win. There will be people left out and frustrated, I get that. But if you don’t take your wins and figure out a way how to message them and communicate that and run your victory lap, then you’re not going to have any wins to celebrate.

Dan Koh: How much do you think this is just a failure of strategy versus the thing that you initially alluded to, which is I think a lot of people, including a lot of elected officials I talked to, seem to not have basic understanding of financial literacy. And because they’re so worried about getting a question that they’re not going to know the answer to, they shy away from.

Stephanie Ruhle: Yes, yes and yes, I think it’s both. I think it’s both. But I think that, um, listen, if there’s an I’m not saying emulate it, but I’m saying acknowledge it and learn from it. President Trump has a PhD in fake it till you make it. And again, I’m not saying to emulate it, but I do believe that shamelessness is his superpower. Right? And I say this as a Catholic, you know, because Catholics are just raised on shame where, you know, 99% of the time we’re just like too embarrassed or too ashamed to, to to just like, even put ourselves out there. But put yourself out there and if you make a mistake, apologize for it. Right. And then start over. But but to shy away from talking about complicated and important things like finances in the economy is a huge mistake. Because when you talk, in my opinion, to the majority of the American people, they don’t care about politics. They feel like most politicians are crooked, and if they’re not crooked, they’re not doing anything for them or they’ve given up on politics. But what they say is, I pay a lot of taxes and the government doesn’t work for me. You know, I don’t like any of it. And they’re very quick to equate. You know, one party does this well, the other party does that. None of them are any good. And if, if, if you don’t cut through that and start to explain to the American people, no, this is what we’re providing. This is what we’re doing and this is how the economy is better. It’s not perfect, but here’s what it looks like on the other side. I mean, look at the president’s budget bill, right? Many of the crucially important programs that are getting cut are not going to get put into place. They’re not going to kick in until after the midterms. So the majority of the American people won’t even realize what’s getting cut. So the Democrats have a messaging challenge right now. The Republicans are passing, we believe, what will be one of the most expensive pieces of legislation we have seen in years. So to me, they have. They have given up their ability to claim that they’re the fiscally responsible ones. They’re the ones who want to go on about debt and deficits. And if Democrats cannot figure a way to message around this and educate the American people, then they’ve got a problem.

Dan Koh: How do you think about independent media and how it’s playing online media as well? The Midas touch, Brian Tyler Cohen. It seems to me at least leading up to this election in 2024, there was a little bit of a blind spot for Democrats. Some, as you said, some were doing podcasts, some were doing some of that. But if you just look at the pure data, you know, the right has been way ahead of the left on this communication. Even now, when you see the White House, they are using new channels, rapid response channels to push out their agenda. And it seems to get far more pickup than Democrats, even when they’re trying to do, you know, their typical X videos and things like that.

Stephanie Ruhle: Honestly, I hear you. I well, I would say two things when people are aghast that the White House, only you know, is now flooding in these influencers that aren’t journalists and they’re angry about it, I hear that. But if you remember the DNC last year, you were there. The DNC was flooded with influencers, right? Right. If you went to Chicago, they had all sorts of parties and events and they were doing all those things. Um, but what I do think that the Democrats need to do a better job of is stop being so precious. Right. Stop being so precious and and holding yourself back from speaking ugly or uncomfortable truths. You know, it’s sort of like that, um, uh, real world MTV line where people stop being polite and start getting real, um, like, it’s incredible to me that you are seeing. Right? Donald Trump was successful in winning over a lot of young men, young male voters, which in 2016 I definitely never saw coming. 2016 I’m like, how are Republicans going to win over young voters with what they’re offering? And Donald Trump did it. What’s amazing to me now? Turning point USA. New York Times just did a big profile in it. Just had their biggest conference for young females just a couple of months ago. And they’re doing it through Maha. They’re doing it through, you know the Make America Healthy again. You know organic eating, not having dyes in your food. Um, and they’re doing it through this movement of, you know, it’s a big positive to be trad wives. I think that there is some middle ground. If you’re seeing a universe of voters that would you would never in a million years would, would, would align themselves with conservative values. You have to find the places where they where there are. Right. If suddenly people are saying, you know what, I don’t necessarily feel great about processed foods or I don’t feel great about Big pharma, right? There’s a zillion things that are wrong with RFK Jr. But if he’s pulling on a thread that is now connecting with voters that have traditionally voted Democrat, don’t just assume that those voters are terrible. Figure out what is it that’s connecting him to those voters, and how do you get there? Think about all of these women who are now aligning themselves with this trad wife idea. Maybe we’re the spaces. Is that in women, with all of our progress and all of the fantastic ness of feminism? Maybe we have forgotten, um, to honor women who choose to stay at home. Maybe we have forgotten to see that voter and honor who they are and what they are. And so I just think, like sometimes Democrats are so consumed and concerned with including everyone and being conscious of everyone, they’re sort of missing the plot. But look at look at how Republicans have run the table on trans youth sports, which should not be a hot topic. It’s something that impacts such a small amount of people, but they’ve allowed Republicans to run the table. I have three children that go to single sex schools, so never in a million years should this topic be a hot topic. Yet when I go to sporting events, it’s what I hear constantly. And so I just think Democrats need to figure out a way. How do you speak plainly? How do you say things sometimes that could be offensive to some and connect with people? Right. I had the privilege of interviewing Vice President Harris during the campaign, and, um, it was an honor to interview her. And I remember thinking, after what Donald Trump is great at, and oftentimes what he’s spouting is a lie. But what he’s great at doing is, is the sound bite and you might say, this is bullshit, this is marketing, but so is getting elected. And I think sometimes when you’re so, so careful about topics and you’re so cerebral, when you’re cerebral and you are up here, you don’t get to people where they are, which is down there. I feel like so much Democrats are just because we see ourselves as the party of inclusion and civil rights. We oftentimes take that and therefore try to not take direct stances on anything at risk of offending a certain proportion of the party or the population. As a result, it just seems like we almost don’t stand for anything. Right.

Dan Koh: Well, maybe Doge is about to come after you, sir. Maybe you’ll get deported. But isn’t that so? For everybody’s panicked over Mamdani. I get why you’re upset over him. But why aren’t you upset over what the president’s doing? But isn’t that the. I think the Elon’s a good example of this because Trump is now threatening his, you know, $50 billion worth of subsidies or whatever that is in government. I think a lot of these powerful Wall Street people, you tell me, you know, better, are worried about speaking out or pushing back, either in private or publicly, because every one of these banks or every one of these companies have some government nexus that they don’t want slapped or resulting in loss of capital as a result.

Stephanie Ruhle: 100%. And that is the case for the smallest businesses right now and the biggest businesses, right? Think about all of the think think about how we were supposed to approach mass deportations. Right. It was hardened criminals. And now we’re going to farms. We’re going to construction sites. We’re going to restaurants and hotels, people going to their jobs, going to fulfill jobs that the American people have chosen. We don’t want to do for a variety of reasons. If you think that right now, a construction crew in southern Florida that was tarring a roof last week and have now either been round up and deported, or they’re hiding and not going to work. If you think that those construction crews have now been filled by a bunch of young American guys up on those roofs in 100 degree weather and 100% humidity. You’re wrong. And the economic impact it’s going to have on big businesses, small businesses, uh, and our overall economy is huge. But you don’t actually hear many businesses speak out. It’s because they’re afraid. They’re afraid of retribution and retaliation. And the scariest thing is that fear is justified. The president will come for you.

Dan Koh: So where do you think this ends? I mean, obviously we’re only five or 3 or 4 months into this administration, so it’s scary for people to think. It seems to be getting worse every day. He also seems to be in many ways, you know, wagging the dog or being like a matador and doing something to draw attention away from some of the more serious things that he continues to do. It’s almost like the proverbial frog in the boiling pot. Right. So how do people push back in this era where they feel powerless, where they’re worried about retribution, where they have loved ones who they’re worried about getting snatched up on the street, but are also just really concerned about their democracy going away.

Stephanie Ruhle: I think it’s crucially important to be informed and engaged right now. And I’m not saying people should take to the streets. I’m not saying they should just be informed and engaged. If you actually understand what’s happening, then it’s incumbent upon you to tell your friends and tell your family, because we are in this time of misinformation where they want people to be exhausted and uninformed. And I just think we cannot let that be the case. And how is this going to end? You know, like, again, I go back to money. If there’s one thing that has proven to be a guardrail for the president thus far, it is the bond market, right? When the bond market comes in and says, uh, uh, sir, like the US dollar is starting to crack. That’s when the house of cards starts to fall. And, um, I didn’t obviously coined the term Trump always chickens out. Uh, Taco. But you’re seeing it. You’re seeing it in trade, right? This deadline, that deadline. Now, here we are coming up on that. What is it? July 9th deadline. And it was a couple of weeks ago, Scott, and said, well, you know, maybe that deadline isn’t a hard deadline. Like if countries are having good faith negotiations with us or looking us in the eye, maybe that deadline won’t be so hard. Um, and the thing that I think has been so frustrating as it relates to trade. This administration is not being intellectually honest about how trade and trade deficits even work. And so that’s why it’s so hard for them to be a success. And the scary thing is, yeah, really small countries that don’t have a great hand to play do fold to the president. Right. If I’m a if I’m a subcontractor in Queens and a big giant New York real estate developer wants to stiff me or wants to underpay me, I’ll take what I can get. But you are now seeing some of our most important allies start to work around us and trade around us, and not consider the United States the greatest and the best, most trusted ally. And that is worrisome. And part of this goes back to your initial point around financial literacy, right? A lot of people don’t even know what the term tariff is. He he takes the term trade deficit. To your point, there are some countries where a trade deficit just makes a lot of logical sense for the United States. But he makes it as if, you know, this is some kind of injustice. And because of the lack of financial literacy, people buy into it.

Dan Koh: Do you do you think there’s some structure that needs to change in terms of the education of the American public? Because to me, it seems like, you know, I have an MBA, so I know some of this, but I certainly don’t know the extent that you do. And and in many ways, the people on Wall Street take advantage of that information asymmetry to, to, to benefit themselves. It just seems to be a huge gap in our society that Trump is uniquely exploiting in a way that I think no other politician has in the past.

Stephanie Ruhle: You know, it’s so funny. I remember, uh, last September, uh, meeting with a CEO in his office and talking about President Trump versus Kamala Harris. And he’s like, listen, I can’t stand him, but I have to vote for him because I’m a business guy and he understands business. She’s just a bureaucrat two months into his administration, and this guy is a CEO and his company is largely here and in Canada. And this guy is now completely tangled in this tariff disaster. And I said, really? He understood business. You’re now entangled in a trade war that isn’t even rooted in truth. And the guy was just shaking his head and so frustrated and disappointed. Yeah. We need people to understand these things. They deserve to To understand them, right? Every person I go back to what I said before wants to be financially secure, physically safe and socially free. And it’s incumbent upon us when we think about kids primary and secondary education in the United States of America, that our kids should graduate high school financially literate. Think about the subprime crisis that happened in 2008. Do you know why it happened? Because so many people don’t understand the basics of how a mortgage works, right? You know, read the Big Short, watch the movie. And I don’t necessarily blame those people, but, you know, you’ve got a mortgage broker, you know, rolling up to your house saying, no, you you don’t need to just buy a $250,000 house. You can afford one that’s $800,000 and let’s get this 0% balloon, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And people said, yes, let me do this. And they got snookered. And that banker that snookered them has run away with the money because it was legal. What he or she did and that person’s on the hook. And so I think it’s crucially important that we. When we think about what are we educating our kids with when they’re finishing high school, they should understand how the stock market works, how the bond market works. They should understand how leases and mortgages work, the basics of a checking account. And I think we’re doing our kids an enormous disservice. And, you know, after the financial crisis, there’s lots of financial education programs around the country, and they’re offered in some schools as electives, but they’re not part of the core curriculum. And it’s amazing to me when you think, I mean, I had kids in high school. When I think about the core requirements in high school, the kind of math that my sons have had to learn in high school math that I cannot help them with come sophomore year. And none of it has to do with financial literacy. And I’m not dogging on trigonometry and calculus or physics and advanced chemistry. I think those are really great things if you work in specific Civic industries. But if you’re going to live in this world, being financially literate to me is far more important. And again. Yes, absolutely. And people feel manipulated because they don’t understand it. And the president capitalizes on that manipulation to your point about the world. Do you see how you already were dogging on yourself where you said, I have an MBA, but I don’t understand my finances nearly as well as you do. There is something about financial markets. There are something about economics that we convince ourselves that the words and the language and the concepts are beyond us. Right? You have an MBA. I don’t. But you immediately think you understand it better than I do. And I just think, let’s break that down. And this goes back to it’s different from Midas touch. But but this goes back to something I love that’s happened on social media platforms. Um, the amount of voices that are out there explaining finance and economics in a way that I’m much older than you, but when you and I were in high school or college, your opportunities were the Financial Times, Barron’s, or the Wall Street Journal. And that is like reading something in another language. So the fact that there is more access and more doors have been opened and, and, and just people have the opportunity to educate themselves. I think that’s great. Unfortunately, they’ve gone so far that they’re going, you know, f you know, screw understanding traditional economics. I’m going crypto all the way. I mean, I think that’s the unfortunate problem all the way over here. But, um, people deserve to understand it. It’s the basis of everything. It’s one of the reasons I became I got into journalism. It was after the financial crisis. I remember thinking, oh my God, the banking industry has done the absolute worst job rebranding themselves, telling their story Because while the financial industry is responsible for lots of wrongdoing, it’s the banking system that finances the American dream. And American entrepreneurship is one of the greatest parts of our country and our culture. And I remember after the financial crisis, feeling like we need to tell these stories and celebrate them, because in a post oh eight world and an Occupy Wall Street universe, the banking industry shied away, hid out, and realized like they were in trouble. So they were going to stop telling their stories. And what they needed to do was find a way to tell a better one.

Dan Koh: Well, that’s that leads me to my last, uh, two part question around career and family. Um, I think there’s a lot of people I admire. The fact that you were 14 years in one industry and then decided to take a big bet on yourself and a leap into journalism. I think there were a lot of people who were really scared and say to themselves, I spent ten years in an industry, five years in industry. I don’t want to give it up because I, you know, I don’t know about the unknown, but there are so many people I feel like are just not fulfilled in their careers and are struggling about how to take the leap and if they should and all that, and at least to family, which is oftentimes that leads to insecurity with a family. Um, you you are have an incredibly busy schedule and you somehow are managing that with a family. So my my final question to you is to part one, what’s your message to someone who’s sitting at a desk somewhere? And, uh, maybe I spent a long time in a career, uh, and is thinking about trying to do something new and is scared to do it. And then two, how do you manage both career transitions and dual careers with a family? And my my wife’s a lawyer. You know, I’m doing this and I feel like there still isn’t a model out there that that feels easy to follow these days with two kids especially, I think there’s any model.

Stephanie Ruhle: I don’t think there’s anyone who’s saying, oh, I’m making it happen, happen. I’m getting it done. It’s great. It’s super, super challenging. But I think the great part is, and this is for women and men, that we have all the opportunities that we have today. Right. When, when, when my mom was coming up, she didn’t have the career opportunities that I have. She didn’t have the education opportunities. There’s no way she could have made the kind of money that I’ve made in my career. And I’m not saying that that it’s easy, but I’m saying one of the great things is we have lots of opportunities, and it doesn’t mean you have to go for it, and you have to choose this giant career. You have to choose a high paid industry. But but I do think it’s great that we can explore these industries. The second thing is, and this is very unpopular, especially for people who are just like excited and want to make a change. Save your money. Right. So so I almost left banking when I was two years in and I wanted to go to journalism school, and a mentor of mine said, do not leave. Um, and banking is a is a high paid industry. And he said to me, you can do really well in a, in a relatively short amount of time. Work hard, save your money, and then figure out what’s next. I think oftentimes people get frustrated and they’re saying, I want to make a change, and I’m saying, don’t jump out the window. Save your money. Get educated, get prepared, and take the stairs down. And the ugly truth that nobody likes to hear. When you’ve become a success in one industry and you want to switch to another, you have to take a giant pay cut. And I would say for every person that I talked to, like, you know, I talked to tons of women who worked in finance who were like, I want to do that thing that you did. And then the conversation stops when I say, I took a 90% pay cut and they’re like, what did you say? 9%? And I said, no, I dug a 99 0% pay cut. And I’m not recommending that. I’m just saying that is the super ugly truth of it. And, um, I for a long time saved, saved, saved my money. And I’m I’m only half of the income in my house. So I’m saying this from a privileged position. I do have a I do have a partner. Um, but I think that even for, for young people who are saying, you know, I don’t want to work for the man, I want to do my own thing. I think that’s great. And I’m so impressed by young entrepreneurs. I was never one. But I just think before young people shun this idea of going to work for the man I never questioned, am I going to go work for the man it was? Which man am I going to work for? I think there’s great value in getting a great education and a higher education, and spending a few years in training programs and learning and, and and building and having that foundation. Because if you have a strong foundation and you know how to work hard and you know how to solve problems and you know how to build relationships, right? If you can work hard, if you’re a problem solver, if you’re a relationship builder, if you have those three things, you can apply those three things to every industry that’s out there, right? Instead of just like, I don’t like my boss, or I don’t like this thing that I’m doing, tons of jobs suck. Send of tons of jobs like you’ve got to grind. But you have to ask yourself, like, am I grinding with a goal in mind? Or am I grinding, you know, going nowhere? And I think that working hard and, and and building your skill set and saving your money is a great way that’s going to give you more opportunities down the line. And I know that, like, saving money is the least sexy thing you can say to anyone, but in a in a scary way, when you think about the industries where women are harassed the most or oppressed the most, or held back, it’s industries that pay the least, it’s it’s people in marginalized communities who have to take a job where they’re mistreated because they’ve got to make rent at the end of the month. And so if there’s one piece of advice I would give to especially young people as much as you possibly can live within your means and save your money? Because money doesn’t make you happy. But having money saved, saved gives you the power and the ability to make more decisions. And I want that for people of every age.

Dan Koh: My final question to you is, you know, we started talking about the amount of misinformation out there. A lot of fear out there. I think people are still recovering from November of 2024. They feel disaffected by politics or people who voted for Donald Trump, who I think are regretting their vote or just disoriented. I mean, some people are just checking out altogether. So some people are mad at Democrats. Some people are really mad at President Biden. There’s a lot of people that are just angry. So what’s your advice to people who are listeners to this podcast who are engaged in their communities, who know those people? What what what kind of message should you arm them with to get them engaged again?

Stephanie Ruhle: Be patient and care more. I think people I completely understand that people are overwhelmed and exhausted and frustrated, but the game is not over. And the idea that I’m going to shut out my family member or I’m going to give up on this person, I just don’t believe I’m giving up on anybody. I don’t I don’t actually believe that people are bad. I think that that that people are faced with unfortunate circumstances. And I think people make bad decisions and then things spiral on top of one another. But, you know, one thing that I would say I learned during Covid about all the amazing, you know, neighbors you had that you didn’t know, and there’s so many people in your community that you know, you didn’t give the time of day to or you knew nothing about them. And then suddenly when you needed each other during Covid because you didn’t have any toilet paper, you got to know one another a lot more. And so right now, the people who are listening are engaged and they care. And I want people to care more. I just go back to like, be informed. Be engaged. Don’t be frustrated with people who disagree with you. Connect with them. Because at the end of the day, I do not believe that we’re that different. And oftentimes people are who are super angry and disconnected. That disconnect happened because of one unfortunate experience and then misinformation and then more misinformation. And we live in this silo that the social media algorithm that is making more money than you could possibly imagine knows what frustrates us and just feeds us more poison to get us angrier and angrier. Let’s make a decision to be the antidote to that.

Dan Koh: Stephanie Ruhle, host of the 11th Hour. Stephanie Ruhle You now know how much work goes into this. Everyone tune in every night. It’ll be well worth your time. Stephanie, thank you so much for having me. Appreciate it.

Stephanie Ruhle: I’m Dan Koh and that’s it for the People’s Cabinet today. Follow us on social media, subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and see you on Tuesdays for new episodes. Let’s go.