From Gridiron to Governor: Wes Moore on Grit, Results, and Building Trust

Maryland Governor Wes Moore joins The People’s Cabinet to unpack his journey from college football wide receiver to transformative leader. He covers:
– Rejecting labels like “left” or “moderate” to focus on results-driven governance
– How he curbed Baltimore’s homicide rate to a 50-year low with innovative crime partnerships and solutions
– Navigating the Trump administration while advocating for second chances
– A leadership playbook that involves bringing everyone to the table
– His vivid recollection of his favorite college touchdown
A must-listen for anyone who cares about public service, our country’s future, and leading with purpose.
00:00 - Intro
01:08 - Football
04:56 - Political Approach and Background
08:12 - Election Lessons and Affordability Focus
11:09 - Beyond Labels: Results-Oriented Governing
13:23 - Crime Reduction in Baltimore
17:26 - Policing Ideologies and Community Safety
19:39 - Tackling Vacant Properties
22:20 - Partnerships and Federal Challenges
26:05 - Belief in Second Chances
28:45 - Message to Disaffected Voters
31:00 - Closing
Dan Koh: You're shotgunning beers at Ravens tailgates. I'm not going to ask you how you know how to shotgun a beer.
Governor Wes Moore: Well, but my wife has. She's like, that's not the first beer you shot, is it? I was like nah, it isn’t.
Governor Wes Moore: I was never the Democrats’ choice. I always promise, if you want the democratic political speak or the people that could defend the Democratic Party at all odds. I'm probably not your guy.
Dan Koh: You're someone who has had second chances.
Governor Wes Moore: I'm not sure if many of these folks believe people deserve a first one. And now. Maryland has gone from 43rd in the country in unemployment to now having amongst the lowest unemployment rates in the entire country. The seeming mantra of this administration is you're on your own in our state. Our mantra is leave no one behind. Ever. The highest homicide rate that Baltimore has had in in 50 years was the year before I became the governor. The lowest homicide rate that Baltimore has had in 50 years is right now. We actually gave historic support for local law enforcement, because they have to be part of the equation for the people who are frustrated about the system, They should because the system has not worked for everybody.
Dan Koh: Governor Moore, welcome to the People's Cabinet.
Governor Wes Moore: It's great to be with you again.
Dan Koh: We have a lot of. Serious things to talk about. But most importantly, I want to get your reaction to a series of stats. Eight receptions, 202 yards, two touchdowns, your senior year wide receiver stats. So my question to you is, should the coach have played you more.
Governor Wes Moore: Yeah, I think so. Well you know it –
Dan Koh Dude that’s 25 yards a reception, that’s pretty damn good.
Governor Wes Moore: It's pretty damn good. It's like just like, you know. And if nothing else, I was a great decoy because all the, like, defenders came to me. And then, like, they opened it up for the, you know, for our tight ends and our and our running backs. But it was cool because I'd never played football a day in my life like, you know, organized football until I was playing basketball at Hopkins. And the football coach who, uh, a guy named, uh, James McGrath, who, um, who passed away. But it was one of the most literally some important mentors of my life came to me afterwards and was like, have you ever played football? And I said, you know, I haven't. And he's like, you know, you got good speed and good hands. He's like, you know, uh, after practice tomorrow, would you be willing to come out and, you know, run some patterns? And I did.
Dan Koh: The 40 yard dash. Was it in the back of your head that this is something you'd want to do. Like, were you a football fan?
Governor Wes Moore: I was a football fan, but I was always over this mindset because I played basketball. I was like, oh, but you can't play football too, because then you get hurt and all that kind of stuff. This was like before everyone like, did everything all the time. And and so I was always nervous, like, would I lose a basketball scholarship? Would I? So I never played football in that way. And I went out there and I, I guess I was pretty good at the 40 and pretty good the vertical leap test and ran some patterns. And so I he made me a wide receiver, which was a pretty easy transition to go from point guard to wide receiver, because it's all footwork and getting off the line and creating separation and all that kind of stuff. Uh, and I absolutely loved it. But what was crazy like our first practice is I. The team played a joke on me because I was new to it. Like I literally had my pads on backwards and they're all cracking up, whatever. But it's like, but I created this real amazing brotherhood. And yeah, it was a pretty I was pretty. Damn.
Dan Koh: Do you remember those touchdowns?
Governor Wes Moore: Oh I do.
Dan Koh: Tell me about tell me about one of the two. Your favorite one.
Governor Wes Moore: I think my favorite one. There was a tip one that was pretty good. There was one where I just like the the DB was playing me close, and it actually I was actually the third option on this specific play. And uh, Rob playing quarterback role back I guess the first two, you know, when he did his checks, he checked down. Uh, the first two must have been covered. But when I came up and I ended up, you know, doing just a basic, you know, a out fake and the cornerback totally bit. And then next thing you know, I got around him, my eyes got big. And then I just started, you know, sprinting, doing, doing my route. And it really was more of a decoy route and the safety drew down. The cornerback was the beat. And so I now have like a ten yard separation between me and the DB. And I like throw my hand up like I'm like, pay attention. And then once he notices those two were covered, he looks up, sees my hand and just like whipped it. And time slowed. Down and time slowed down and you're like, okay. Here we go.
Dan Koh: Chariots of fire play.
Governor Wes Moore: Exactly. No no no no no. And then. And then the ball, you know, hit right here and then it's just like a glance in the end zone. It's like a 50 yard, 55 yard touchdown pass.
Dan Koh: Was your Mom there?
Governor Wes Moore: Um, you know, she was at that game. She was at that game, and then it was crazy. And she was all excited, even though she had no idea what she was looking at. Um, then for every play after that, when we run that pattern, you saw how you had two safeties that would then kick back. And so then now you're getting all attention, which opened up the downstream. So it was, uh, but I remember that that was a that was a pretty cool.
Dan Koh: Well, I promise there's a political element to this, but I want to ask you about which is, you know, a new poll just came out. Democratic approval rating continues to be around 28% or so. And there's all this debate that is, I'm sure you agree, highly artificial about how Democrats should present to the American public. Uh, you have seem to have an approach that is just like you're going to be you you have practiced with the Maryland football team in full pads. You look like you can still play. By the way, um, you're shotgunning beers at Ravens. Uh, at Ravens tailgates where I think a lot of politicians be like, oh, my God, if I shotgun a beer, what's it going to happen? I'm not going to ask you how you know how to shotgun a beer.
Governor Wes Moore:: Well, but my wife has, and she's like, that's not the first beer you shot, is it? No, it isn’t.
Dan Koh: But I'm curious on how you approach this, because this is a time in which Democrats are in the wilderness. Right? And everyone's just having intense debate about how to present and all that.
Governor Wes Moore: You know, it's interesting for me because, um, I was never the Democrats choice. So, you know, when I ran for governor, we were running against, you know, ten different people. Um, and we were running against statewide elected officials. We were running against county executives. I ran against, you know, uh, Obama cabinet secretaries, uh, one of whom which was on my board, the organization I ran, which was very weird, um, and very awkward. I ran against a former head of the DNC, like the former head of the Democratic Party, ran for governor. And then me. Right. The person who had no political experience. Don't come from a political family. Um, but I come from a family that, you know, as I say, was more used to suffering the consequences of policies than making the policies. And so I always promise that the I if you want the, the democratic political speak or the people that could defend the Democratic Party at all odds, I'm probably not your guy. Um, I'm a person who knows how to get things done. I'm a person who knows how to build good teams. I'm a person who never forgets, who puts me there in the first place, and really lives by this ethos that I learned in the Army, which is leave no one behind. Um, and we ended up, despite that, ended up winning with more individual votes than anyone who'd ever run for governor in the history of the state of Maryland. So, you know, I you know, I think the thing I promised the people of my state is that I'm not a party warrior. I'm a person who knows how to make things better. And I think that's the consistent thing that we have to be able to remember is that if we spend our time just, you know, asking permission or asking the party bosses for our talking points, then no one can be surprised why people get frustrated because they feel like they are not the priority. The party is the priority. And so I think part of the answer to this is like, you know, being very clear is that, like, you know, the only people I respond to are the people who put me there. Um, but there's nobody else who is going to dictate to me, nor tell me what my answer should be, or or what I can say is not to offend or whatever the case is. Um, that's why I think we've been able to maintain a very real connection and popularity with the people of our state is because they see it, and they see that wasn't just like the way I campaigned. It's actually the way that I've chosen to govern, too.
Dan Koh: We've seen other candidates recently, Zohran Mamdani as an example of that in New York, not being an establishment pick. I think the populist pick, obviously there's some positions that he has are controversial, but the stance on affordability certainly resonated with the public. What is your perspective on the election and the lessons that we can learn from that as well?
Governor Wes Moore: You know, it's interesting because I think that, you know, it's New Yorkers made the choice. I think sometimes people almost overindex on it. They're like, well, what does this election mean for The National? The answer is, I don't know. I mean, it's it's in New York City mayor's race. You know what I'm saying? Like, there were New Yorkers who made a choice. Um, no one else in any other state. No one else, even in the state of New York, had to say, except for the individuals in this in the in the city of New York. And and when he talks about things like affordability. He's exactly right. Because, frankly, what did we talk about? When I ran for governor, we talked about affordability. We talked about how do you create pathways for work wages and wealth for everybody in our state and not just some, because oftentimes the pathways for work, wages and wealth were we're we're we're almost like arbitrarily and very miserly, uh, given out in the state of Maryland. So when we talked about that, we said, okay, we were 43rd in the country and unemployment. So I said, okay, what are we going to do? We made Maryland the first state in the country that now has a service year option for all of our high school graduates, giving them a chance to get into the workforce and find something that makes their heart beat a little bit faster to solve our societies problems, that we were able to sign the largest mass pardons in the history of the United States of America, uh, where I pardoned over 175,000 misdemeanor cannabis convictions. Because I do not understand how we can celebrate the benefits of legalization if we are not dealing with the consequences of criminalization, that we have made historic investments in apprenticeship programs, trade programs, etc. getting people into the workforce, even if they don't have a four year degree. And now Maryland has gone from 43rd in the country in unemployment to now having amongst the lowest unemployment rates in the entire country. Our unemployment rate right now is 3.2%, which is more than a full point lower than the national average. We've raised the minimum wage, and we've gotten rid of this lie that somehow if you raise the minimum wage, unemployment is going to spike. Actually, in Maryland, we raise the minimum wage and unemployment completely dropped. And we've been able to do things like, you know, if you want to deal with things like housing affordability. My answer to dealing with housing affordability is build more housing, increase more supply, give people more of an opportunity to become homeowners and give renters the opportunity to become homeowners and increasing wealth in that way. So I think that that What our takeaway is, is that people care about affordability. People care about cost of living. People care about work, wages and wealth. And if we can stay centered on that, I don't think it's just a good political argument. They're the right policies that people are hoping for, and hoping that their elected leaders are actually going to put in place as well.
Dan Koh: And I think we're we're at a point in which we're beyond these labels of far left or center left or what have you. I'm curious in your obviously, we talked about mundanity, you see in other areas in Michigan or what have you. There's more of a centrist approach for the Democrats. How do you think we move forward when people are starting to think about like, where is the path for Democrats in 26 or 28?
Governor Wes Moore: I think that, um, I think if you asked most people, I mean, like because we're we're constantly out, right? Uh, we're kind of like, you know, governor outside as a nickname has started to, uh, blend out. And I think if you ask, most people say, are you far left? Far right? Are you moderate? Are you, you know, MAGA? Are you whatever. I think most folks that I talked to in Maryland couldn't really give you an answer, because I don't think that they think about themselves that way. I don't think they think about their lives that way. I think if you ask them their opinions on specific issues, then we can kind of figure out, okay, they're probably more moderate or this person is probably more progressive, or there's probably more or whatever. But if you ask me about like what their label is, I think most people didn't have or would not have an answer. I actually think the biggest thing is we're talking about what are we hope for? Or what do we think that what is the direction that people are going to go in? I think it's fundamentally going to come back to one word results. Like, you can talk to me about what you're going to do or what you want to do all day long, but what results do you have to show? Give me evidence that your ideas actually work, both in practice and in scale. And I think that's the thing that's really going to resonate with people. Is, is my life better because that person was in that seat? The people that can answer yes to that. I think there is there is a there's a real runway about how we're talking about the future of the country and the future of the party and all that kind of stuff. But I think for people who find themselves confined to what bracket that you fall into, I think that you will find a the audience of people who are interested in listening to you, um, just gets, gets, gets dwindled real.
Dan Koh: Quick on the topic of results and to your point about how people actually perceive politics, I think there's a lot of people who just feel like no matter who's in party, if people aren't speaking to them or they're not seeing those results, they just kind of give up and check out. You've done a lot of work in Maryland, and there's one area I just want to talk about a little bit. Is what you've done in partnership with Baltimore with the lowest homicide, fewest homicides in 50 years. That's correct.
Governor Wes Moore: That's correct.
Dan Koh: You just talk about, I think a lot of people hear about, oh, here's here's an initiative, but no one really knows how it actually does it. So can you take us behind the scenes to give us a little sausage as to how you do that, and then also how you make sure people feel the safety. Right. It's one thing if you get up and say, hey, there's not as many homicides, but people don't feel safe. That doesn't solve the problem, right?
Governor Wes Moore: You know, the the highest homicide rate that Baltimore has had in in 50 years was the year before I became the governor, 2022, the lowest homicide rate that Baltimore has had in 50 years is right now. And and listen, I remember one of the, you know, in our first months, Baltimore had one of the largest mass shootings in the city's history where, um, where I get a call in the middle of the night about dozens of people were shot, most of them children. Um, and I remember going to the hospital and meeting with, uh, a young man who just had one of his testicles shot off. Who was talking about? Um, he didn't know if he would ever be able to be a father. He was 16 years old, and, um, I remember leaving there, man. Like, I'm not doing this. I'm not spending my entire time as governor doing this, just visiting hospitals and giving eulogies of children. And we said, we're going to take a different type of approach. And we, uh, very intentionally decided to partner with the mayor and the state attorneys. And, you know, where we made, you know, just look, you know, recently we made, uh, investments of over $50 million in the Baltimore police force putting more boots on the ground, making historic investments in local law enforcement all across the state of Maryland, that we made historic investments in our state's attorneys, uh, over $10 million invested in the state's attorneys, making sure that we can get real prosecutions. We're one of the only states in the country that actually helps defend to fund the US attorney out of balance sheet, because I said, if a person commits a violent crime in the state of Maryland, I want accountability. If a person commits a violent crime utilizing technology and predictive analytics, where I said if someone commits a violent crime, particularly with a handgun, I want him in handcuffs in 24 hours period and full stop. And that we've invested in community groups, community organizations, violence intervention groups, made historic investments in education. You know, making sure you're thinking holistically about our areas. And you're right. We're really we're really encouraged that, um, that now we're literally the last time the homicide rate in Baltimore was this low. I wasn't born yet. Um, and that's not just Baltimore. It's the entire state of Maryland where we're watching some of the fastest drops in violent crime anywhere in the United States of America. So I think partnership matters in this. Working together matters in this. If you talk to the mayor of Baltimore, ask him, how many times did you talk to the former governor? What kind of investments did the former governor make and the work that you were doing around violence intervention? And the answer is none. And so if you do not, I don't understand how you could say you're going to build and support out of state if you ignore the state's largest city, if you ignore the population that has been crying for support, and you continue to turn a blind eye and literally draw a picture of the state that has Baltimore City erased from it. And so that was the legacy of my predecessor. And I always said that my legacy was going to be different. And we're really we're really encouraged and proud that, you know, partnership produces progress. And and we're not done yet. But but people are looking and saying there's a real meaningful difference to what's happening now.
Dan Koh: We interviewed Mayor Justin Bibb of Cleveland, who has a actually a similar success story around this. And I asked him about how the community reacted and especially some of the areas, some of the community who were, you know, favor of defunding the police. His quote was that defunding the police was the worst slogan ever invented in American politics. I'm not asking you if you agree with that, but I'm asking you is what are your thoughts on these different ideologies and movements and how you get them to grow together to a point in which we get to the goal that you're talking about?
Governor Wes Moore: I think and I actually think you just hit the nail on the head. What what are you trying to accomplish? Right. Because for me, my thing is I'm not trying to accomplish an ideology. I'm trying to accomplish safety in my in my people's communities and in our community and the people who live in our neighborhoods. And I said that if you were going to actually accomplish real measurements of safety, you had to make sure that you had law enforcement that moves with appropriate intensity and absolute integrity and full accountability. And you don't have to choose between those three different things. I need a police force that moves with all three as their North stars. And so that meant we made historic investments in local law enforcement. We didn't starve law enforcement of supports. We actually we actually gave historic support for local law enforcement because they have to be part of the equation, but that we knew that you were not going to police nor militarize your way out of something that is also a larger societal problem. And so it also meant making historic investments in our community intervention groups, making sure that you were supporting entrepreneurs and having real measurements of economic growth, making sure that you could have job training for people who were recently released from incarceration or people who were also, you know, finishing up high school but realized, I don't want to go to a four year college, that's fine, but let's make sure that we have real pathways for them as well. And so I, um, I think oftentimes people can get caught up in the slogans and people get caught up in the ideologies. And I just feel like in Maryland, we're just choosing to move different where it's like, yeah, I'm not doing that. But what I am doing is we're working every day to make sure that the people in our state that their lives are better.
Dan Koh: One other topic that I know has been passionate for you is the vacant storefronts, and you put a significant amount of money for it on that. And again, I think similar to crime, people see that they lose faith when they see the same building that hasn't been fixed. Something I know you're really passionate about.
Governor Wes Moore: You know, I, um, when we came on board, Baltimore City had around 17,000 vacancies. And and it's like, it's not even just the fact that you had now just unusable real estate. Um, because you did. Baltimore had one of the fastest declines of population, with the exception, actually, of speaking of Cleveland, of Cleveland and Detroit, Baltimore had the largest decline of population of any major American city over the past 30 years. And but it wasn't just the fact that you had this, you know, this unrealized potential. It was it was the psychological impact of when you go to neighborhoods where it's just block by block by block of just vacant homes, and what it meant to the hope that people had the progress was even possible. And so we got together and, you know, and in partnership with the city, uh, came and said, all right. And for us, you know, put in $100 million into saying we are going to we are going to have the most rapid decline of vacancies that this city has seen, where I said in five years I want a half the number, and in 15 years I want the number gone, no more vacant and just turn those into real places of opportunity, into new housing opportunities, into green space and parks and have the community involvement in it. Because I think people have also learned is that I am I'm probably one of the most aggressive pro housing, uh, governors in the country where we have, you know, last year we signed the most aggressive housing package, um, you know, arguably of any Maryland governor. And I told them I'm coming back for more. And we are, Ah, because you have to build more housing. You have to build more inventory. When I've got 30% of young people in my state who are saying we are considering leaving the state of Maryland for one reason housing cost, and then I'm looking at the city of Baltimore, and we got 17,000 vacant homes, over 30,000, essentially, you know, brown zones for housing. I'm like, wait a second, y'all. Problem solution. Let's put these two things together. And so we're really excited that we've been able to generate the kind of, um, not just the kind of buying but momentum. But people needed to see that the state was going to lean in. And not just in theory, but the state was going to lean in in capital. And that's exactly what we've done. And I think the results that we're now seeing of, again, you know, the rapid decline in vacancy that we're seeing in Baltimore and how that's creating new home, you know, new housing opportunities for people that, um, that our strategy is working.
Dan Koh: You talked a lot about partnerships, and I think about the work that we did together on the Baltimore Bridge and how you were able to mobilize and get that accomplished. We are in a time in which we not just a Republican president, yes, but a uniquely a unique character who is particularly divisive. What's it like operating under this administration, and what's your what's your take on what's happening now, especially in this context of, you know, such discord in his base right now with Epstein files and all the things that exist?
Governor Wes Moore: It's night and day. It's like a light switch. I, um, I, I think about how you take the bridge is a perfect example where, you know, I've come to learn in this job that when my phone rings in the middle of the night, I'm never able to get good news. Um, and at 2:02 a.m., my chief of staff called and told me that the the key bridge was gone. Uh, because a ship the size of three. Has been like. What?
Dan Koh: Yeah. Um, my little answer was, what? Did you just make that up?
Governor Wes Moore: It's like. What? Bridge? He's like the key bridge. I was like, what? What do you mean, gone? And then he explained to me, and I'll just never forget that some of the first calls that I got that morning were from the white House. I remember that from the president and the vice president. The transportation secretary. It's like like some of the first calls that I got was from Washington saying, we're here to help. Let us know what you need. Stay in close touch, etc. and I remember. So you take the inverse where you know, when you know, after a ten year process, Maryland gets awarded the new FBI building that GSA goes through. Independent process makes the announcement. The FBI, the new buildings coming to Maryland gave all the criteria very transparently about what's going to happen. And then I found out that President Trump, in a press conference, unprovoked, decided that he that the FBI building was not going to go to Maryland because Maryland was a quote unquote, liberal state.
Dan Koh: And you saw it on the news.
Governor Wes Moore: And I saw because I got a Washington Post news alert. This is it's night and day. And the frustrating thing that I, um, it's not just what it means in terms of the partnership of governance, because this administration is very clear. It's not just that they are. There's a disruption in the relationship between the feds and our states. It's a complete severance, right? But it's also what it does to people's belief in government. When I have, you know, and when people talk about, you know, our federal workers that are getting laid off. You know, not only does Maryland have the most exposure to any state in the country of our federal workers, we have over 260,000 federal workers in my state, over 160,000 federal jobs in the state of Maryland. When you're talking about doing things like cutting NIH and cutting Social Security, those are Marylanders that you're talking about. So there's a direct exposure. But the other thing that really gets me is that who are we talking about? We're talking about people that are making sure that our that our food is safe, or that our critical infrastructure is protected, or that veterans who are coming home and suffering from PTSD can get their medication. That's who you're that's the problem. That's who we're laying off. And so it is, Um, dealing with dealing with these folks is, um, it's not it's not just frustrating, uh, from a governance perspective, but also about do you believe in public service or not? And do you believe that people, when they raise their hand because they say, like, listen, I know I could be doing something else in my life. I know I could be making a whole lot more money. I know I could be spending a whole lot less time in the office. Um, but I'm doing it because I believe in this country, and I'm doing it because I believe that we all have a certain debt that we owe. And it seems to me, especially the the message that you are sending.
Dan Koh: You're someone who has had second chances. Uh, you your service, um, dedication with with people in Maryland with the work that you're doing on on um, what you talked about with cannabis, you're someone who believes in second chances. This seems to be an administration that is very cynical about people in general, their intentions about whether they can succeed Certain people?
Governor Wes Moore: That's correct.
Dan Koh: What does that mean for you as someone who had a second chance, who wasn't perfect in the beginning? Who got in trouble for graffiti when you were growing up, who's now the governor of Maryland to have a president who is so cynical about people?
Governor Wes Moore: You know, I, I actually wonder what this administration, whether it's even deeper than that. That it's it's like it's not even in many cases, they don't believe in second chances. I'm not sure if many of these folks believe people deserve a first one, that there is a there's a superiority that they feel about the way we look at people in this country. Um, and it's true, like, I, I am, you know, while the seeming mantra of this administration is you're on your own, uh, in our state, our mantra is leave no one behind. Ever. And, and and I feel like. And maybe it is because of my background, I am probably the most improbable governor in this country. When you look at my background and the history of the state of Maryland in many cases. Um, and, um, but I'm a person who where I feel like service helped to save me, right? It helped to expose me to people that I would never had exposure to. When I, I had a chance to serve with people in Afghanistan who I never would have ever gotten to know folks from some parts of the country that they're in. But I did because we served together, and many of them were the same people who came and campaigned for me when I ran for governor. Many of them were not Marylanders. Many of them were not Democrats. But they were like, I just want to tell you about the guy that I served with. And they would go knock on doors on my behalf that there's a certain stickiness that service and serving together gives us. And I don't know if this administration understands that where there's a certain humanity that service together gives us. And I don't know if this administration really understands that. And so I, um, you know, I am a person who deeply believes that that earned second chances should actually mean something. Um, but I feel like there is a deep sense of otherness that I'm seeing from this administration that I don't think that they think that many people deserve a first chance in the first place.
Dan Koh: My final question to you is there's a lot of disaffected people out there after the outcome of 2024, whether it be Trump voters or Democratic voters who are still feeling disaffected, feeling like maybe, you know, government involvement isn't even for them, civic participation isn't for them. What's your message to the people listening to this podcast, who know those people who want to reach out with a message of hope or with a message of inspiration?
Governor Wes Moore: Well, one is, I don't think, um, I think their cynicism is justified. And I think what we don't want to do is, is browbeat or gaslight, because for the people who are frustrated about the system they should be, because the system has not worked for everybody. And, um, you know, I can tell you that from personal experience. I can tell you, you know, from, you know, I convinced members of my family to vote for me when I told my I was running for governor. And it's like, because I had to convince them to vote. So I get it. Um, I think the thing that we want to continue reminding people, though, is the reason that even the basic freedoms we have, why we have them, is because there were people who were willing to fight to make sure we could have them, that we are surrounded and standing on the shoulders of people who fought for the hope of us. And in these times and in these moments. And again, it's not even just about sitting who's sitting in the white House, it's who's sitting in your statehouses, who is your who are your mayors? Who are your council people? Who are your school board members, like who sits in these seats? It matters. And we have a solemn obligation to be able to express our gratefulness for the people who came before us, by willing to express our commitment to the people who are going to come after us. And so I understand the frustration that people feel. In many ways it's fair and it's justified. I also know that the only way it's going to get any better is if we actually choose to engage. Because if not, you're just you're cynicism is not just going to challenge your life. It's going to challenge your legacy. And whether anybody ever even thinks about or remembers your contribution to this place.
Dan Koh: Governor Moore, thank you for coming on to the People's Cabinet at the next Ravens tailgate. Hopefully we can shotgun a beer together.
Governor Wes Moore: Hey, now I'm ready. I'm ready. Thank you. So much.
Dan Koh: Thank you. I'm Dan Koh. That's it for the people's Cabinet today. Follow us on social media, subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and see you on Tuesdays for new episodes. Let's Go.